Thursday, November 18, 2004

Peaches, Plums, and/or Alfalfa?

Kissing: To engage in mutual touching or caressing with the lips as an expression of affection, greeting, respect, or amorousness.

Synonyms for "kiss": blow, brush, buss, butterfly, buzz, caress, eat face, glance, graze, greet, lip, make out, mouth-to-mouth, mush, muzzle, neck, osculate, peck, pet, pucker up, salute, shave, skim, smack, smash, smooch, spark, sugar, swap spit, touch, X

When was the last time you kissed somebody, I mean really kissed somebody? And no, stage kisses don't count - unless you enjoyed it. ; ) For some of us it was this morning, for others, last night, last week, last month, last year... and then there are those who have never had the privelege. Either way, the general consensus is that kissing is a desirable thing.

Being in college, getting exposed to it is inevitable. Having to watch other couples "osculate" (and then some) might make you uncomfortable, but deep inside, we all wish it was us instead. I really think that those of our age group who have a serious issue against PDA (Public Displays of Affection) are just bitter because they're not getting any. But we'll save that discussion for another blog.

We are also not unfamiliar (did I confuse you with my double negative?) with the cousel our church leaders have for us regarding this social accepted and appropriate practice of ours.


"Do not participate in passionate kissing" (For The Strength Of Youth)

"A kiss is an evidence of affection. A kiss is an evidence of love, not an evidence of lust... but it can be. Don't ever let a kiss in your courtship spell lust. Necking and petting are lustful; they are not love... I don't mind [you] kissing each other after you have had several dates; ... not the kiss of passion, but the kiss of affection." (Spencer W. Kimball, address to missionaries, 2 Jan. 1959).

"Kissing has... degenerated to develop and express lust instead of affection, honor, and admiration. To kiss in casual dating is asking for trouble. What do kisses mean when given out like pretzels and robbed of sacredness?" Spencer W. Kimball.

"What is miscalled the soul kiss is an abomination and stirs passion that results in the eventual loss of virtue. Even if timely courtship justifies a kiss, it should be a clean, decent, sexless one... If the soul kiss with its passion were eliminated from dating, there would be an immediate upswing in chastity and honor, with fewer illegitimate babies, fewer unwed mothers, fewer forced marriages, and fewer unhappy souls. With the absence of the soul kiss, necking would be greatly reduced. Its younger sister, petting, would be totally eliminated. Both are abominations of their own right and kind." (In Conference Report, Sydney Australia Area Conference, 29 Feb. 1976, p. 55.)

Having grown up in a Muslim country where kissing is only now becoming socially acceptable (you barely ever kiss and tell- this whole blog right here would be a HUGE controversy!) and raised in a rather sheltered environment, I had no qualms whatsoever with the counsel of our leaders in regards to kissing.

"Well, duh, kissing is obviously so EVIL - why would you want to do that with your boyfriend? Holding hands with him will be more than enough."

I was absolutely certain that I would not kiss a guy unless he was the one I planned to marry. Also at the time, couples attached by the hip in public and who just couldn't let go of each other were objects of ridicule to me. Of course, at that point, I had never had a boyfriend before and wouldn't have my first one till I was here at BYU-Hawaii. Those of you who have known me while I was seeing somebody understand completely the humor and irony in this. I have been labeled as "the-girl-who-just-can't-keep-her-hands-off-her-guy". Kissing in public? Hey, it's only PDA if you're looking!

Do I enjoy kissing? Yes, absolutely. Do I feel guilty for it? Why, should I?

Remember my "goal" of not kissing a guy unless we were planning to be wed? Well, I've kissed 3 guys and I am still single. 3 is still very small number so in some ways I have done an alirght job saving myself in that department (although it doesn't accurately represent just HOW MUCH I have kissed!) I've had 4 boyfriends, so I did good with one of them, at least: my first one. He felt the same way I did and while we still kissed, it was never mouth-to-mouth. Go figure. I think that the only reason we didn't is because we didn't date long enough to succumb to physical attraction.

My first kiss was with a non-member a whole 6 years older than me. He and I had "dated" online for a good year and a half before we met up here in Hawaii. I was 18 at the time. It was a very romantic first kiss - I have it all stored in my head as you would see it in a chick flick: the airport meeting scene. Two lovers approaching each other, wordlessly, a pause, recognition, smiling and disbelief, breathless whispering of names, then a release into this long passionate uniting, and while the cameras whirl around us, we kiss, oblivious to the crowds walking by. Yeah. That was pretty much it. *sigh*

I've always heard people saying how the first kiss is usually awkward and not as romantic as you planned. I've also heard the same thing being said about the wedding night. Uh-uh, not true for me! There expect there to be none during the consumating of my marriage either. There will be no stigma, just lots of... Han, you really shouldn't be reading this blog.

Because I had finally been kissed, I finally experienced the enjoyment, began to miss it and it was easy to cave in to the request to be kissed on a first date with someone else 2 months later - something I had vowed against before. To be fair, we already knew each other fairly well, but had previously only "hung out" and that was the official first date.

This experience here, raises up the 2 issues I have been meaning to discuss.


Mormon Kissing: Church Tongue, Porno Tongue - oh, how about none at all?

My first kiss was with a non-member, my second kiss was with a member. I did not know what was appropriate in "Mormon Dating Culture". I let this second kiss take the lead and till today, it's still an argument if he brought in the tongue first or if I did. I swears he did. He swears it was me. Whatever it was, our first kissed determined the way we would kiss from then on.

We have been warned against kissing passionately. So, is tongue a serious no-no? One of the things that came up on our first date kiss, also, was WHEN DO WE STOP?! I had thought that when he wanted to kiss me that it would be like more of a plum (open mouthed, no tongue, lasting for just a second). Well, think of church tongue vs. porno tongue, minus the tongue part. It was what I had imagined proper Mormon kissing would be. Apparently he had other things in mind. I wasn't unfamiliar with that, so I played along.

Till today, I am still unsure of what "approriate Mormon kising" is exactly. Probably because nobody here ever practices it. Everybody seems to have their own opinions, and you just don't sit down to talk about how you would kiss before you do.

It's a very hard thing to control on your own. You may have a set idea of what you'd want to do, or not to do, but the person you are dating/kissing has alot to contribute to the do's and don'ts in your relationship/make-out session. Even though we are all of the same religion, there are still many little things we do differently. Add sexual attraction on top of all that and all you have is a whole confused bunch of [insert better word for horny here] college students.


Dating Who You Kiss and Kissing Who You'd Date.

That's taken a step down from marrying who you kiss and kissing who you'll marry, because, well, I have to lower my standards to justify my own actions, or I would never be able to live with myself...

They both go hand in hand to me. Dating and kissing, and yes, even marriage. In a way, I would love to save kissing for the one I'm going to marry. But I've failed to, thus far. I intend to try again, but I am not determined enough to promise that I won't kiss a guy I was interested in having a relationship with if the opportunity came up, even though I wans't sure that he was "the one". Remember: ex-Molly Mormon. Not a saint.

I have always been against NCMOs (non-commital make-out sessions - Mormon one-night stands, basically) and when I first heard of them I wouldn't believe that people here would actually do such a thing! "Who would do a stupid thing like that?" Imagine my horror when I found out that some of my own friends played spin the bottle here, recently, ON A SUNDAY!

I don't want to judge people who don't see kissing to mean much more than a physical act. Just because I take it very seriously, doesn't mean other people have to as well, right? Even though I want to scream "BURN IN HELL!", I really have to rethink my strategy. When I find out that someone is involved with something like that, I lose a little (ok, so maybe alot of) respect for them. Right now, I have to find a way to adjust that because too many people I know are disappointing me. Do I have to adjust my views just so I have room for my friends to belong?

Really though, I think that I am envious of their ability to separate the physical from the emotional. I know that I am incapable of doing that. That's why I vow to stay away. But like all my other previous "vows", I am not above being tempted to kiss someone just for the sake of being kissed.

Because I want every kiss I give to mean something, I have gotten into 2 relationships because I kissed them. It has become the norm for me, that kissing initiates relationships. It used to be to me that holding hands intiated relationships, and the kissing was additional later. To my second kiss though, a kiss was just a kiss - holding hands was special. That really confused me.

I think that at this point in my life, kissing and holding hands have been used interchangably. The way I look at it is that both are exclusive activities to me. I don't kiss multiple guys at a time. I don't hold hands with more than one guy at a time either and I expect the same from him (with guys and girls alike. He better not be kissing other guys while he kisses me!) That's why we have to be so careful who we kiss - you never know what exactly it meant to one another and you may be tied into relationships or problems you weren't really ready for or desiring at the moment.

Lowell L. Bennion (LDS) pointed out very wisely:
"Kissing is more stimulating than satisfying; consequently, it invites more and more. Once a couple begins to share affection in a kissing... or in other words, a physical...way, this activity tends to become the focus of interest. Often such a couple ceases to explore the other significant dimensions of personality: mind, character, maturity, religious faith, moral values, and goals.

Affection should grow out of genuine friendship and brotherly love, not precede them, if one wishes to be sure of having real and lasting love in marriage. Kissing for the sake of kissing invites more affection, and many fine young people become more deeply involved than they actually wish to be.

As a guiding principle, I suggest that affection, whether holding hands, walking arm in arm, or kissing, between a young man and woman be consistent in degree and character with the nature of their total relationship. Affection should never be sought after as an end in itself, because this does violence to a person. Let affection grow and flower gradually, as do buds, blossoms, and the fruit of a tree. Let it be a part of a larger, naturally developing relationship that has its roots in a rich companionship of the mind, character, and faith. When and if kissing comes into a relationship is dependent upon the nature and intent of that relationship.


It really gets to me that whenever our church leaders bring up kissing, it's always "passionate kissing". The words lust, necking, petting and then fornication follow soon after. Those are on the opposite end of the spectrum from pure love, affection, chastity and eternal marriage.

As much as I dislike how all these words are always associated with each other, I can't deny the fact that something we enjoy doing and do for fun do have eternal consequences, so we need to be careful with who, when, where and how we kiss.

Sheesh. All this talk about kissing only makes me miss it more. Forget getting married to have sex, I might just have to get engaged in order to get some lip action.

My gratitude goes to Hershey's for easing the abstinence process. Makes me wonder if the French chocolate is any better...

p.s. For those of us not planning to go to Fall ball, the Guest Services department of the Polynesian Cultural Center is holding a 2-night camp-out at Malaekahana Beach Park and we have been encouraged to invite our friends. One of the suggested games was spin the bottle. If you get me high enough on lack of sleep, I just might end up playing. Pick up will be by the little theatre from 7-8pm. See you there!

20 Comments:

At 11/18/2004 09:51:00 AM,

The true question on kissing that has plagued Mormon youth for many a year is, Sacred or Secular? This is what it boils down to. Are you kissing merely for the sake of feeling the kiss or are you kissing because you truly like the person that you are smashing lips with and you are showing your affection through kissing? My belief is that if you have substantial feelings for the person that you are kissing, then I see no reason to feel guilty for a kiss. Granted that affection felt may be nothing beyond the fact that the guy is hot, there, and a really good kisser, but that is something. I think that the remove of emotions placed in such games as spin the bottle places a lesser value on the kiss, but also protects the kisser from feeling those "passionate" feelings of a kiss. Kisses are far more dangerous if you have feelings for the person that you are kissing than if you don't. NCMO is not dangerous in the respect those passionate feelings may never arise whereas kissing a significant other can be dangerous in the respect of what general authorities say about kissing. I am not in the least suggesting that NCMO is better than kissing someone you are dating, merely giving food for thought.
To approach the subject of hand holding versus kissing. In my innocent youth I believed that hand holding would come before kissing and not necessarily signify a relacionship, but a kiss=relationship. 6 boyfriends later I've come to realize that kissing means a lot less to me and that hand holding means a lot more. It's strange really that a kiss can be just a kiss, but once you hold hands there's no out. Once the holding of the hands has been done, then every other moment with the person (usually while in route) it's like a whole mental process has to take place, "Uh, do I hold his hand? Cuz we held hands once before and we may or may not be a thing but does that mean that we hold hands all the time or is that just a some of the time..." and thus proceedeth the thought process until either your head explodes or you finally hold the other persons hand. In addition, once a hand holding takes place in public then it signifies to all around that the two hand-holdies are now a couple. Kissing on the other hand can be merely a signal that you like the person you are kissing, with no actual commitment until commitment is verified verbally. And unless the kissing is in public, which it usually isn't unless you live in Hales 3 or 5, then there is nothing to indicate to a crowd that you are a couple. I also think that hand holding can say a lot more than kissing can. For instance length of time: If the recipiant of a kiss ends the kiss when interupted by an audience, there is no real deep thought placed into it beyond that they don't prefer to kiss publicly. But if a person ends a hand holding because people appear, it sends the mind reeling, "Does he not want people to see us holding hands? Is he embarrassed by me? blah blah blah I think to much" and so on and so on. I have had it happen to me that I kissed a guy and then afterward held his hand and for reasons unknown I was more excited (like heart into flutters excited) about holding his hand than I was about kissing him. It means so much more to hold hands than to kiss which totally throws the Mormon mind off balance when kissing is placed in such protective regard.
As for saving kissing for marriage, I really believe that that can lead to more trouble than kissing while dating. I mean kissing allows for so much chemical attraction to be recognized, some guys I have really liked, but once I had kissed them there was no spark, no pizzaz. Not to say they were bad kissers, but merely that I did not feel that physical atraction to them that I thought that I had had. And to not kiss until marraige only means that you could be stuck with someone that you love, granted, but that is not physically stimulating. Which can only lead to boring or badness. Having not been married though, my view on this is skewed. But I once held the 14 year old fantasy that I wouldn't kiss until I was engaged or some other nonsense and since have realized the foolishness of my youth.
In sumation, kissing is good, I like it, I wish I had more of it.
 

Posted by Becky (formerly known as a BYUH student)

 
At 11/18/2004 12:27:00 PM,

Well said, Becky. Thank you for your input. While you may be correct about NCMOs being less damaging than kisses with a significant other, I'm not sure how I like decreasing the value of a kiss like that. Such a culture only creates more confusion - I would like to know what the guy means when he kisses me instead of having to agonize over it for days before we finally establish things between us.

I'm afraid of liking someone and then finding out that he is a bad kisser. Yikes! What do you do then? It goes back to the age-old conflict about needing to know if he's good in bed or not before you get married. How important is it?

I have to say though, Becky, that now I know why relationships move so fast with me. I put holding hands, kissing and dating in one big clump. If I've kissed him before, that means I can and will do it again. Same goes with holding hands.

I think all of us have skewed viewpoints. We are in college and we just want to kiss. Maybe when we're settled down and are getting some real action that we'll be able to put things into perspective.  

Posted by Faye

 
At 11/18/2004 02:20:00 PM,

Well, being one of the aformentioned people Faye was refering to as a person she kissed, I figure I might as well chip my two cents in.

First off, she did add the tounge frist...

I really liked how Becky put the hand holding vs. kissing thing. That is the exact same way I feel, but I have not been able to put it so well in words as she had. I think Fei must have thought I was nuts for my view on that. I hope that helps.

I've always said that the difference between a good kisser and a bad kisser is not so much technique as it is passion. But, yes, you must bridel you pasison so as not to take it too far. It's a very fine line.

It is no secret to anyone on this campus who knew me while dating Fei or Anna that yes I like kissing. The longer I go without the more I miss it. I kinda like having kissed so much that I really don't feel like doing it for a while. Granted, that never stopped me when I could. Fei was my first girlfriend and the whole concept of having someone who would let me kiss her when I felt like it was a mind blower! I couldn't let an opportunity go! I think I've calmed down a bit since.

I'd like to think that the next person I kiss would be my wife, but I think that has proven not to be in my cards. I also used to think that the next person I'd date would be my wife. Also not gonna happen. But this does not make me want to go around kissing anyone that will let me. I don't wait or hold kisses for "the one" but I don't want to kiss any old girl for the sake of kissing. Belive it or not, I think it is special enough to reserve for those I like.

I do admit, I had a recent kiss that was more of a dare and for fun. It was a peer pressure situation. I come accross as a hypocrate there, I know. The difference between that kind and the ones that I say I reserve is my intent and emotion. When placed in a situation where a "spin the bottle" kind of thing happens (I have not played it yet...) I will allow a kiss. It's usually weak at best and not with that "passion" that I say is the key to a real good kisser. It's when I put my heart into it totally that I hold back. I think both can sence that feeling and that makes a kiss more of a social kiss, not romantic.

Speaking of social kisses; I can't tell you how many girls I have kissed on my mission. I don't mean just old tutus with mustaches. I mean young local girls. It was the aloha kiss. That is a form of a kiss, but no one says that should be reserved for a wife, etc. My point is, social context and intent are what define a kiss. Each person has to take the event on a case by case senerio.

As for me...I could sure do with some kissing right about now.

Any takers? 

Posted by Jared

 
At 11/18/2004 02:29:00 PM,

Well any one want to hear something from the other side of the prespective?
Yep still haven't kissed anyone and if your my friend you already know this. And maybe I'm still young and naive but that fact won't change untill i'm engaged. I think we will all have varying prespectives on the topic as mentioned before but this is a personal matter.
On a intresting note the majority of my friends that have been lip active generally don't speak highly of it after the relationship is over.
Hmm I think I'm rambling. 

Posted by Erika

 
At 11/18/2004 03:19:00 PM,

Thanks for bringing up the point about the social context of kissing. Although you so tongued first.

Stage kisses are fine, so in a sense, spinning the bottle would be fine too. Although very shallow. What's the fun in kissing without the affection? I mean if you really think about it, you're drinking each others spit and what was in his mouth goes into yours... doesn't that gross you out just a little bit?

Ok. If staged kissing is ok, what about staged sex?  

Posted by Faye

 
At 11/18/2004 03:22:00 PM,

Well what can I say? The words that first come to mind would kill my creditability as a commenter. I can only give my feelings and hope they are taken in the right light. I too know the pain of hearing of others louse lips. It bothers me so, on two points. One that it reminds me how different I seem to be. And that it can come so easily to them.

I would call myself a passioniet person. I can get a great deal fired up, yet only on some things. Kissing is not one. I do hate that it is such a big thing to so many people. I have lost two dates that I know of because I would not kiss the girl. I have not commented to save my first for my eternal mate, but I also have no desire to kiss freely. You could not get me in a game of spin the bottle with a gun to my head. Nevertheless I am not free of the burden of lust. I see many a pretty girl on this campus. I have a stiering of emotions for many of them. I say it's more then just chemicals. I deem this because I do not desire to consider myself a biological beast.

While cowardice has been a savior to me on many an occasion. It has also caused its own wounds. I consider myself a coward no longer (in such things). I do know that I lose feeling for a girl that has been in a CMO, Let alone a NCMO. I hate how so much of this world is built upon hooking up. So many clubs, bars, and parties; they are all focused on this thing. I just want to have fun, laugh, have some intellectual debates. If you add sex into this equation it kills the others. People always say that kissing, sex, and attraction are nature and should be treated as such. I agree but others don't see to follow their own words. Sleep is nature, but even that must be put off till it is right. We can not just sleep when ever we are tired. What am I getting at? I don't know. I do my best to not judge others for chousing to sin differently then I do.
 

Posted by JudgeWhetten

 
At 11/18/2004 03:33:00 PM,

Stage kiss ok. Stage sex bad. Cause that's just porn.

Well sense spin the bottle keeps coming up I think I will expand my thoughts on it. It's a game that 14 and 15 year olds play when they have their first boy girl party. It always been thought to me as very childish.
 

Posted by JudgeWhetten

 
At 11/18/2004 04:16:00 PM,

For the record, I love kissing. 

Posted by Rusch

 
At 11/18/2004 05:17:00 PM,

I found this blog really interesting (don't worry, it wasn't the sleazy part that got me :P)...I need to mix around with you guys a bit more. You guys are really great, so matured compared to people at my school (can't really blame them). This is a very inspiring discussion.....and I think I just got an idea for my comic strip :P 

Posted by Han

 
At 11/18/2004 05:30:00 PM,

YOU CALLED MY POST SLEAZY?!

Han, if you can draw something relevant to our discussions, I would SO post it here and promote your comics - of course, you need to work on getting yourself set up as an artist too, with a proper (and regularly updated) webpage.

I wouldn't call us matured, but of course, you're compairng us with 14 year olds.

Judge, kissing doesn't always have to kill fun, laughter and intellect. Only if the act is an end in itself. If done with the right person for the right reason, it does quite the opposite. There's something about physical initmacy that opens bonds and connections between two people. Kissing means that you are comfortable around each other and that you share something more than just intellect.

Of course, who that person you want to open up to that way is different for everyone. Some save it for the perfect person, and others use it as a way to find out if he/she is the perfect person.

A girl who doesn't won't date you because you won't kiss her isn't worth dating anyway.  

Posted by Faye

 
At 11/18/2004 07:12:00 PM,

Not sure which is longer Faye's Post or the comments after ward. But its nice to see that there are still people that have good conversations about things in this word and not just Airheaded talk 

Posted by kirill

 
At 11/18/2004 09:40:00 PM,

Funnily enough, I'm kind of with Erika. There's nothing to be ashamed about having never been kissed, cos I haven't either and I don't intend to for a while (I've sworn off chicks till after my mission). At one point I thought I'd wait until I was at least engaged to kiss, and I still may, but it'd be wierd to love a person enough to want to marry them and have never kissed them. I'm not speaking from an informed perspective because I've never really even been in a relationship, and I don't intend to kiss anyone unless I'm in a relationship with them and know they love me as much as I love them. I don't want my point is exactly, but I think it has something to do with, kissing is alright depending on the circumstances. I think people who kiss every Tom, Dick and Harry have lost the purity of kissing. Kissing is supposed to be a show of affection, something special - and I think every kiss should be special, not just the first.

And Stuff,
~Vasu~ 

Posted by Vasu "Blink" Chetty aka Sydney

 
At 11/19/2004 03:00:00 AM,

A kiss is a lovely trick designed by nature to stop speech when words become superfluous.
~ Ingrid Bergman

No, just kidding. I whole heartedly disagree, as many assume I would.

As is has been stated, kissing brings a couple together more and differently than hours of intellectual exchange. That is true, and that is the problem. Most people only marry one person in a lifetime, yet they make all these 'connections' with common men or women (whatever the case may be). I believe that this is unnecessary and even wrong many times.

None of us are married... yet. Some are not even in that world, which is where I mostly relate, but certain aspects to relationships should be kept more sacred. I am not speaking from a soap box as some of us do (I am referring to Shem - a soap box was his B-day gift). I consider myself in the same pursuit of balance. I don't think I have found it yet, and it is not yes. Nevertheless, it is a noble pursuit that many take lightly.

I don't often express myself as straightforward as I do now, nor will I. I just wanted to share my thoughts on that matter though they may not mean much.

This topic is clearly open to different view points or debate. So converse on. I enjoy the perspectives.  

Posted by Justin

 
At 11/19/2004 03:02:00 AM,

I will not deny that kissing is nice, though. 

Posted by Justin

 
At 11/19/2004 10:18:00 AM,

I've noticed that those who haven't kissed or that have kissed only sparingly, place more emphasis upon the meaning and importance of a kiss. I kinda wish I had that innocence and exhuberance back. To be kissed for the second time again (not the first cuz the first is always weird) would be really neat because its all rush of emotions, yeah. But then I think, "Yeah but then I would have missed out on the kissing that I did get and I got some really good ones in there."
Oh and I would totally take Jared up on that offer except, thousands of miles away. 

Posted by Becky (formerly known as a BYUH student)

 
At 11/19/2004 11:49:00 AM,

Faye I understand what you mean, yet it is not the easies thing to do. Plus what I was talking about was not one on one dateing or realationships. I was rifering to social life. How so many things get taken down to the sexual and flirty level. I don't see the sexual decline as much but I also don't see as many serioul topic disgusstion. I blam myself for that one mostly, and my lack of ablity to bring such things up. 

Posted by judgewhetten

 
At 11/19/2004 07:59:00 PM,

Becky, the kisses of someone who has kissed sparingly are worth more because of the lack of supply. But then again, they kiss sparingly because their kisses are worth alot to them. The two go hand-in-hand.

I wouldn't call that "innocence". Being innoncent implies naivete, when it is more of a purity. The pure are always thought to be naive anyway. The word "innoncent" means both.

One would argue that the really good kisses aren't worth the damage to the spirit. I'm not sure how much "damage" my spirit has received but I'd rather not be known as a person with loose lips. That's a good enough reason for me.

Justin really did have a good point, though. We do open so many deep connections (on more than one level) with people we never intend to marry and I have to wonder out loud if that is what causes all these complications in breaking off relationships.

And all this time I thought it was because I was so incredibly wonderful...  

Posted by Faye

 
At 11/20/2004 10:32:00 AM,

Fei said, "Having grown up in a Muslim country where kissing is only now becoming socially acceptable"

This statement suggests that kissing was not socially acceptable in Malaysia. Well, I disagree.

When I observe all the different cultures in Malaysia, I see that the Muslim, Indians and the Orang Asli publicly show their affection with kisses, it is the minority--Chinese who does not kiss. The Muslim, the Indians, the Orang Asli all show their affection and respect to their parents, children, or other family and friends with kisses either on the cheeks, forehead or on the hands. I had recently been kissed by two Muslim girls when we had to say goodbye, and that stirred this thought, observation and conclusion.

By the way, in Malaysia, the Muslim husband and wife do kiss in public, albeit not the mouth-to-mouth-take-my-breath-away type. When you do see this happen, the feeling you get inside is that they love and respect each other. You're glad to be there to witness a love so pure.

It is a very rare occurrance to see any Chinese couple give even the most polite and simple kiss-goodbye on the cheeks. Perhaps the younger kids with raging homones and exposure to hollywood culture are now stealing the public kissing scenes--the mouth-mouth-take-my-breath-away type (albeit not as frequent as in BYUH!). When you happen to see it, you know it is not out of respect and love, some how. You feel uncomfortable being the third, forth, fifth... person watching the public show of DESIRE FOR AFFECTION that has a tinge of lust in it.

Anyway, I have a question. What is the point of kissing-mouth-to-mouth-taking-your-breath-away in public? If you're married, you get plenty of opportunities in private--so why do that for show? If you're not married, you probably like the thrill, the rushing of emotion, the goose bums and maybe the envious audience (whether willing or forced). Perhaps this is the show-off culture of the West. (There's no show and tell sessions in Malaysian public schools! Show and tell is a foreign idea.) If you're a LDS, you'll have to deal with this whole discussion about KISSING in your head after you passionately kissed someone in public and broke up soon after. But if you kissed passionately in private, you might not be able to hold your horses once your raging homones take over...

Passionate kissing is like an addiction. How would you prevent yourself from getting caught with "withdrawal syndrom" that you'd cave in to any form of kissing--even the lifeless-mouth-to-mouth-spin-the-bottle type? You smart people should know the answer--Grass don't grow on busy street. Go figure.

I admire those of you responded to this blog who hold your kisses sacred. I hope you can find that special someone who shares the same values...and that when you do find each other, you can recognise it--you'll be helping each other live your shared conviction, in spite the chemisty!!

For those who've been there, done that and broke off can I suggest that the momentous exhiliaration only brought more confusion than assurance? (We can see the arguement over who brought the tongue in--clearly, you were both confused!!) When you truely love someone, you wouldn't be overly concerned about having him/her pass your "osculation test". And who says that a good kisser would make a good spouse??

May I also suggest that we explore other possible ways of showing/reciprocating our affection to someone of the opposite sex?

How about hand-holding---

Yes, I do think that holding hands totally brings out another form of emotion. I enjoy that more than being kissed by my husand in public. Which picture is more romantic--a grey-haired couple holding hand in the golden sunset at Sunset Beach or the same couple osculating. I would like to be in the first picture in my golden years.

When was the last time you held hands with your loved ones? I just did yesterday my nine-year-old son's. I loved it. I have to treasure it while it lasts. Can any of you boys out there recall the last time you held your mother's hand (not arm--that's different)while you walked by her side? I'm sure that there was a point in time that hand-holding spelt new meanings to you--and you began to be shy/conscientious about showing your affection.

Ok, I rest my case here. 

Posted by mom

 
At 11/22/2004 05:15:00 PM,

SHEESH! And I thought I thought about this garbage too much. To quote Harvey, "It's all in your head. You should get out and take long walks in the fresh air."
Seriously, a kiss is wonderful when you REALLY REALLY mean it. It's not a test to see how attracted you are to someone or just a stage in a relationship. It should be an expression of feelings you already have, not a test to see if you have them. If you have to kiss someone to see if you're attracted to them, find someone else who you're so attracted to that you don't have to kiss to make sure. Keep in mind that attraction is not just a physical thing, and kissing shouldn't be either.
Having said all that, love is the sort of thing you can't explain or put rules on. And the whole situation changes for girls who have to choose to accept kisses more often then they give them. But most of y'all seem to be love-starved geeks rather than people who really know what they're talking about. This is coming from the biggest geek of them all, I know one when I see one. I am also not saying I've never screwed up and kissed someone that I've regretted, but it was an honest mistake and not some spontaneous combustion of hormones.
"So maybe you should stop complaining all the time and get a life!" -- the sock from the Nobody 

Posted by Anonymous

 
At 11/22/2004 09:12:00 PM,

1st: Shem, you really have no reason to be posting here "anonymously".

2nd: "But most of y'all seem to be love-starved geeks rather than people who really know what they're talking about" - who would you say knows what they're talking about then?

3rd: Mom, I think we're going to ban you from posting here for a while - gimme back that mallet! The fact that you are right takes out all the fun from having this delusional discussion.

4th: I don't know where you have been hanging out mom, but the most PDA I've seen in Malaysia have been from the Chinese. It could be that I was working in a Bukit Bintang - a Chinese dominant area. Still... And when I said kissing, I meant mouth to mouth kissing. Between lovers. And being a narrow minded adolescent, I wasn't even thinking about people who were married. Or any other sort of kissing. I think the whole topic of the discussion in my mind was about people in our age-group who are dating and the kind of kissing we do. I'm not sure any of us even thought for moment about Aloha kisses which we do so frequently. Except Jared. I think he enjoyed those too much.  

Posted by Faye

 

:
:
:

BloggerHacks

<< Home